25 baitfish limit part deaux
Where does the creek end
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Posted on Saturday Jan 11, 2014 at 4:47 PM  
Just to add some more confusion to this poorly worded regulation who determines where a creek or river that feeds into a lake becomes a part of that lake and is no longer subject to the 25 baitfish limit.  Every lake in the state is fed by a river or rivers and creeks too numerous to list.  How far can one go up the river or creek before the 25 baitfish limit kicks in.  Should the reg only apply to free flowing rivers, creeks and streams?  Is this another arbitrary decision left to interpretation by each individual enforcement officer? 
Posted on Monday Jan 13, 2014 at 3:29 PM  

Another question?

There is no bag limit on Bluegill, Green Sunfish, Long Ear Sunfish etc. or Bullheads.  I sometimes catch small sunfish and small Bullheads and then use them to bait trotlines and limb lines in rivers.  How can I be found in violation of the law by possessing more than 25 of these fishes if  there is no bag limit?  Who makes the determination of what nongame fish is considered a baitfish? 


Posted on Wednesday Jan 15, 2014 at 5:55 PM  
And is it 25 of each species, or 25 fish total?
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Posted on Thursday Jan 16, 2014 at 8:24 AM  
Bigjon, sadly I have not a single good answer for any of your legitimate questions.  I suspect that each warden would be the one to determine where a "stream" starts and a reservoir ends.  I also do not know how each officer would handle sunfish or bullheads being used to bait trotlines.  There is no harvest limit on sunfish when they are caught on rod and reel, but I think using a cast net, seine, or other bait-catching gear would negate the no-limit regulation as the angler would not be considered to be fishing but rather collecting bait.

As I said earlier, the best course of action for you (and others) to get this rescinded or changed is to be heard by Fisheries Administration in OKC: 405-521-3721. 

Allen, the reg states 25 nongame fish meaning 25 total, not 25 per species.
Posted on Thursday Jan 16, 2014 at 12:56 PM  
my son and I catch several very small perch in creeks around the home place on rod and reel with very small hooks and keep them in a large bait tank at home.
part of the fun is to see who can catch the smallest.One thing that disturbs me about this law, living in drought stricken western Oklahoma is we have perch still in a tank from last summer caught in a stream that no longer has water in it. They would have DIED where they were.these streams had thousands of small perch and flat heads that dried up over the hot summer months.the hundred or so we kept for the bait tank got lucky.we also kept several minnows in there, which we legally trapped(by old regulations) as we are out in nowhere 40 miles from nearest bait shop, but have access to farm ponds within a mile of home.
I quess this spring ritual will be over and the bait tank will be junk and the western non game fish will dry up with all the rest of the waters out here. I don't think you could find shad out here if you had to.
Posted on Thursday Jan 16, 2014 at 5:15 PM  
Thank you Kurt.
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Posted on Friday Jan 17, 2014 at 6:37 PM  
Got an email from fellow Notebooker Nancy Young.  She asked me to post this here.  She got an answer from an official concerning the new reg's:

To Me
Today at 3:41 PM
Allen, this is the answer I got back from Jim Burroughs at ODWC about the new Regulation changes.  I don't know how to post it on the notebook.  If you know how to post it would you please post it for me. 

Thanks                   bigjon

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: jim Burroughs <jb.odwc2@gmail.com>
To: nancy9643@sbcglobal.net
Cc: Don Groom <dgroom@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: 2014 Fishing Regulations

I’m the first to agree that regs can get confusing. It seems the more we try to simply things the more confusing they become. Let me try to address your questions and comments. Please see  below.
I hope this helps. Drop me another note if you need further.
Thanks, Jim Burroughs
From: Don [mailto:dgroom@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:57 PM
To: jim Burroughs
Subject: Fwd: 2014 Fishing Regulations
Sent from my U.S. Cellular® smartphone

-------- Original Message ----
"Illegal to take or possess more than 25 non game bait fish except for shad which 200 may be taken or possessed."
The law actually says ….possessed or transported by land based conveyance. (Not taken) from a river or stream. The regs do say taken but that is not how it is worded in the law.  
What about bait purchased from a bait dealer?  Can I have more than 25?  How would you know where I got them? 
Most all bait purchased will either be golden shiners or gold fish. The law again refers to taken from a stream. If you have golden shiners or gold fish they most likely did not come from a stream. If you have more than 25 golden shiners or gold fish it will be no problem. I might suggest hanging on to your receipt as additional proof to where they came from.
What about Sunfish used on trot lines or juglines in Rivers?  If caught someplace else can more than 25 be possessed and used?
You can have more than 25 sunfish if they are not taken from a river or stream. Yes it would be hard to prove that you collected them from a stream.  If you caught your 25 from a stream and used them for a bait in the stream you would not be allowed to possess more than 25. You could however have as many as you wanted if you caught them from a pond or lake.
Is the 200 shad limit 200 per fisherman, or 200 per boat?  What about home shad tanks, can I possess more than 200 in home shad tanks?  What about guides who catch shad for fishing parties of several people.  Can they catch and transport more than 200? 
Once again the law says possess or transport via land based conveyance. A guide could catch more than 200 for his customers if used in the lake they are caught in. You could possess and transport more from your bait tank….200 per number of license holders in your vehicle. It’s not illegal to catch more than 200 only possess for transport.
What is the determination of where a river or stream ends and a lake begins?  Every lake in the state is fed by a river and streams to numerous to list.  At what point do the lake waters end and the regulations for rivers and streams begin?
This has always been an issue. A couple of our more confusing trouble areas, we have defined where the lake ends and the river begins. I am working on keeping that language that delineates these particular areas. As other areas in the state become a bigger problem, the same type delineation may have to be developed.  
The new regulations are very vague and seem open to broad interpretation that can only lead to confusion and uneven enforcement.

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